When Sex Crimes are Awarded, I Wonder……

1. When it comes to sexual harassment, what is the exact minimum criteria that must be met?

– Who decides this criteria?

– What proof is required?

2. When it comes to sexual assault, what is the absolute minimum criteria that must be satisfied?

– Who decides that criteria?

– What proof is required?

3. When it comes to rape, what is the minimum that must have taken place for this to even be considered?

– Who dictates that criteria?

– What proof is required?

Whenever I hear of sex crimes, it’s a fact that women and gays (including lezzies and trannies) are not prosecuted with the same levels of prejudice and vitriol that straight men are.

How come those who falsely report sex crimes are given incredibly light sentences if any punishment at all?

If you accuse anyone of anything, then the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defendant.

Why do we refuse to acknowledge the real victims in all of this?

If any of you out there know the answers to these questions, I would appreciate your insight and information……

Advertisements

104 thoughts on “When Sex Crimes are Awarded, I Wonder……

  1. I agree with your post. In reality you are correct and that is wrong. I wish the wrong accusers got punishment due to disrupting another’s life for no reason. The system needs to be changed in all countries around the world. Who makes the criteria are those who run the countries legal systems. And they are doing that because we elect them to office. We need to ensure that real people get elected to help society.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      Thanks James. I think the majority of these events are based on accounts and not actual hard evidence.

      The laws are created in a sense to simply make it easier to target straight men. How many have been locked up and imprisoned for years off of false accusations and pathetic evidence.

  2. Hello 007 I am just listening to you and Rakelle’s talk. I said I would finish it off. I decided to hear the entire talk from start to finish. I like it.You two are just making it worth while listening to. keep this going my friends.

    Tell Rakelle I heard the whole podcast !! Yes, I did this. I am smiling now.

      1. Yes, I made a promise to you and Rakelle to listen to it all. I have been entertained beyond belief with the amazing talk you two had. You had me sitting here wanting more and more. I think it was the best podcast I have heard since last year. I never imagined Rakelle and you would be so incredible with such diverse views that were actually normal views. Great to hear it all 007. Great to know you are here and I like your blog as well. I like Rakell’s blog also. Have a fascinating night 007 !!

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      Well, let me do what I can and I’ll reach out to you tomorrow and hopefully we can get something on the calendar

          1. My trilogy is about an alien invasion of earth. I write a lot about aliens on my blog on here. I write a lot of different genres as well. I apologize for not including this in my last comment rue202 .

          1. I am still writing and creating the trilogy. I am on Book One and am determined to get it out around the end of February. I have no Title for it yet. I will create one before I finish book one. I will let you all know through my blog when the publication date for Book One gets close. Thank you for the interest in my books and I appreciate that a lot.

  3. The system must be changed. Sure, the laws are different in every country, but they are always unfair in someway. Same-sex relationships aren’t allowed here, even though there are many LGBT people.
    People who make these laws do it in a way that gives them or a group of people a great advantage over others. It isn’t fair.

  4. Anonymous

    Do a Google search and see if you can find a number of how many men are falsely accused and then imprisoned for rape. I just did and found multiple sources that site the number as below 2 percent of all rape cases. Also, most rape cases (estimates 60%) go unreported (although I did not see what that number was derived from). I think th at as straight white males, we can very easily empathize with this idea that we have become or have always been a target for women. However, what many fail to see is the mantle of victimhood we take on with this mentality. Straight men are the real victim here, because a college kid got accused of rape but was later found to be innocent. No one is truly innocent, and accountability accountability needs to be enforced, however the facts remain, in terms of sexual assault statistics, the difference in the number of men who are falsely targeted verses the number of women who are actually assaulted and report it is staggering. If you say I’m wrong that’s cool, but understand that you are arguing not with me, but with the facts as they have been reported by the various law enforcement agencies. -Steve.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      And that’s another thing. Where do these “unreported” numbers come from? If it wasn’t reported, or it wasn’t investigated, then is it just a person saying that they were attacked or raped? I don’t understand how these numbers can be legitimate with no investigation or proof to back them up. Another statistic that no one knows or understands the origins of, yet everyone repeats it as if it is gospel.

      It’s kinda like “mass shootings” where the term “mass” is used to describe 3 or more, but no one ever divulges that, since “mass” sounds so much more dramatic. There is no set standard for the term “mass shooting”. So, whenever I hear of accusations of something sexual, I wonder what is the bare minimum in these scenarios?

      I’m not even looking at the numbers of straight white males, the black male population has it just as bad if not worse.

      I’m not trying to argue, I just think that the minimum for these accusations and charges is vague at best. Just like all of these rape kits that are never used. It seems that the definitions and the minimum criteria tend to be rather liquid and easily malleable when they should outline specifically what is or what will be considered harassment/assault/rape.

      Once any man is accused of any sexual crime, no matter is they are later innocent, their lives are over as they know it. The mere accusation with no proof and no legal prosecution is devastating.

      That is why I asked, because if we knew what the actual legal definition was and we understood what the minimum required criteria was to cross the threshold into harassment/assault/rape, then possibly I think less would allow themselves to be in those situations.

      1. Really? You think men who have crossed a sexual line have done so because they didn’t understand where the line was? That it’s all just a big understanding? I’m pretty certain rapists already know what they are doing is illegal and they don’t care.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  And that’s the thing. I’m not saying that rape doesn’t exist. Yet, what is rape and what is not rape defined by law? Can rape be claimed the following day, even when consent was given the day prior and was never revoked?

                  1. “Yet, what is rape and what is not rape defined by law? Can rape be claimed the following day, even when consent was given the day prior and was never revoked?”

                    “Rape in the United States is defined by the Department of Justice as ‘Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.'”

                    Yes, rape can be claimed the following day – it can be reported up to each state’s statute of limitations for the crime.

                    1. bottomlesscoffee007

                      It’s so delicate, the more we talk, the more I wonder. How to keep these laws in place, while not allowing them to be abused.

        1. bottomlesscoffee007

          exactly Dorothy. It is important to understand what exactly the minimum required criteria is, that way it is much easier to avoid. Thereby less will be victimized and less will be falsely accused.

  5. Legal definitions of individual crimes, including the various points that must be satisfied to qualify, are laid out in each state’s criminal code – and they vary from state to state. The criminal code is largely drafted by politicians, but lobbyists also have influence (i.e., Megan’s Law, etc.), and it is regularly revised. Is it perfect? Nothing is.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      That’s the thing though Heather, I could be wrong. But I think I am not alone in this thinking. If there is a standard then it should be known by all. Just like what the legal limit for alcohol is to be considered a DUI.

      1. You do know that each state individually fell in line with the .08 DUI standard after tons of lobbying by MADD, right? It’s also relatively recent that all states enacted legislation stating that standard.

        You’re comparing apples to oranges though. DUIs are much more prevalent than violent sexual crimes. I’m not necessarily disagreeing that the criminal code (in general) ought to be standardized across all of the states, but it’s just not likely to happen. Even if it did happen, having standardized laws on the books across the nation wouldn’t change criminal behavior, nor would it change the rate that these crimes would be reported…whether legit or not.

        1. bottomlesscoffee007

          Exactly my point Heather. And are we any closer to ending DUIs or texting and driving? If there is not a base line standard, then how will we know if we have crossed that line or not?

          1. Do drunks know they’re drunk when they get behind the wheel? In my history of working to defend DUIs, the answer is nearly always yes. And yet they did it anyway. Having a standardized legal definition isn’t going to stop stupid human behavior/decision making.

            1. bottomlesscoffee007

              It won’t, but it will make it easier to punish. It will make it absolutely definable for the perpetrator.

              1. I don’t think it makes it easier to punish if there is a nationwide standard – states do just fine punishing on their own criminal codes and ignorance is never a defense.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  Maybe, yet it seems to me that there is plenty of grey area around all of these acts. Sure, rape is rape, then again, when is accusations of rape not actually rape?

                  1. “Sure, rape is rape, then again, when is accusations of rape not actually rape?”

                    If all you’re trying to do is get me to admit that there are false reports of rape, you win – there are false reports of rape; however, by and large, the rapes that are reported are legit.

                    1. bottomlesscoffee007

                      I’m not trying to get you to admit anything. I’m just asking, if a rape is reported, yet consent was given and never revoked, can it still be considered rape. I know there are a million “what-ifs”, but I think the more that we know, the easier it is to stay out of trouble. There are rapists and then there are people thinking that everything is cool, just to find out later that it was not.

                    2. It’s the what-ifs that will determine whether or not it would qualify as rape. Did the victim pass out? Was the victim otherwise unable to revoke consent due to
                      restraint or some other method?

  6. I like that you mentioned this. About false accusations, those caught should be made to serve similar punishment as the victims. I believe when people understand the magnitude of sexual harassment claims, people will become careful to report it and will do so only when it’s true.

  7. Anonymous

    If you want to see why women don’t come forward to report rape or assault, watch the movie “the hunting ground”. It’s a documentary about what life is like for girls in college. If you have a daughter and are hell bent on sending her to college, you may want to skip it because it’s pretty gnarly. I think that there are some very blurry and confusing lines in our culture, but overall I think predatory behavior (including falsely accusing a person for personal gain) of any kind needs to stop being something that gets rewarded or encouraged. Also, every time a girl falsely accuses a guy, it seems to get blasted out all over the media. Most sexual assault cases don’t make the news, and all rapists deny any guilt whatsoever. It seems a complicated issue to me, so I feel like it’s best to trust the numbers. If the numbers are true, sexual assault is a way bigger problem than false reporting.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      That’s the thing though, I don’t mean to get into the weeds with this, but then why are the major liberal institutions i.e. Universities and Entertainment, media etc. continuing to allow this to take place? Its also apparently prevalent in politics i.e. the “sushfund”.

      It just seems that the people and institutions that scream the loudest about this are also the biggest offenders.

      When it comes to the military, why aren’t the numbers/statistics/data separated by MOS and unit? If this is a real problem that needs to be fixed and everyone wants to talk numbers, I would think that instead of combining everything and prosecuting everyone, it would be more advantageous to separate the numbers and do a “deep dive” to really look into what is actually happening. This seems to be avoided by design.

      If life is so terrible in college or university, then why do women continue to attend? Why do they continue to take out loans just to be harassed or worse. Why not boycott these institutions? Why not shut these institutions down?

      If LE has actual data or evidence, what is keeping them from doing their job?

      It seems to me (layman) that this is just another way to blame people who have done nothing wrong.

      If these things are truly happening, then what is the remedy? If no one wants to actually talk about how things happen, then this will never go away.

      If any person doesn’t want to report it, then that is a decision that they made. Regardless of the reason, if they want justice then they need to step forward and actually accuse the perpetrator and not a blanket blame of the opposite sex.

      “If” the numbers are true, then why isn’t the data/evidence that drives those numbers known fully?

      I cannot trust anything or anyone that I cannot prove myself. More devastation has taken place throughout history due to demanding or asking for blind trust.

      I know that this differs from your stance and I appreciate the points and questions you posed.

      I look forward to your response.

      1. You think anyone (person or institution) allows sexual assault to take place? Historically, I’d agree with you to a degree (e.g. the Catholic church), but society has been working towards shining a light on all these deep dark secrets that used to never be talked about. With the Catholic church debacle, the “molestation craze” in the 80s, and now the #MeToo movement, they have all taken the same trajectory: (1) Heinous thing happens; (2) Victim shines light on heinous thing; (3) Public is enraged and demand this behavior must cease immediately: (4) Many more victims come forward; (5) Seemingly everyone is considered a victim and the public realizes we’ve gone into full witch hunt mode; (6) The craze normalizes into a safe place to report, less false reports and fewer crimes happening.

        You truly think women shouldn’t seek higher education because college (fueled by booze, drugs, freedom and hormones) is a more likely place for a sexual assault to occur to them? That they should “boycott” (aka: remain lesser educated) to stop the behavior? Only it won’t stop. Perhaps we should go back to the 50s and only have single sex schools? But then I’m sure at those coed parties, the behavior would continue. So, what’s the real answer? REAL EDUCATION. Good old fashioned parenting teaching boys where the lines are and that no always means no while teaching girls to use general common sense.

        One thing the 50s got 100% right was the societal sense on community. One bad egg in the community was ostracized and WELL KNOWN to it. Unfortunately, we’re a transient and mobile society now. We live in a vague structure of community, but few of us are CONNECTED. We’re all out for ourselves or our own nuclear family and not looking out for our neighbors near or far.

        As far as nonreporting, until you’ve been a victimized woman, you can’t understand the shame and, sometimes, pure terror that would accompany making a formal report. Unless the assault is obviously violent which resulted in visible injuries, male cops tend to discount the victim’s testimony. It takes A TON of courage to report a sexual assault, especially in today’s overly sensitive political environment. Many victims don’t have the fortitude to withstand being revictimized by reporting, so they try to forget it ever happened. Few succeed with that plan, though.

        1. bottomlesscoffee007

          Q. You think anyone (person or institution) allows sexual assault to take place? Historically, I’d agree with you to a degree (e.g. the Catholic church), but society has been working towards shining a light on all these deep dark secrets that used to never be talked about. With the Catholic church debacle, the “molestation craze” in the 80s, and now the #MeToo movement, they have all taken the same trajectory: (1) Heinous thing happens; (2) Victim shines light on heinous thing; (3) Public is enraged and demand this behavior must cease immediately: (4) Many more victims come forward; (5) Seemingly everyone is considered a victim and the public realizes we’ve gone into full witch hunt mode; (6) The craze normalizes into a safe place to report, less false reports and fewer crimes happening.

          A. Not just the church, what about the Harvey Weinstein situation or Bill Cosby or Charlie Rose or Matt Lauer, what about the professors who engage in sexual relationships with their students? As history has shown us, money and influence dictate who will and who will not be prosecuted.

          Q. You truly think women shouldn’t seek higher education because college (fueled by booze, drugs, freedom and hormones) is a more likely place for a sexual assault to occur to them? That they should “boycott” (aka: remain lesser educated) to stop the behavior? Only it won’t stop. Perhaps we should go back to the 50s and only have single sex schools? But then I’m sure at those coed parties, the behavior would continue. So, what’s the real answer? REAL EDUCATION. Good old fashioned parenting teaching boys where the lines are and that no always means no while teaching girls to use general common sense.

          A. When did I ever say or even suggest that women should not seek higher learning? I simply asked that if this is taking place at alarming rates, why do they still attend and take loans out? if women and girls are 50% of the population and an even higher percentage at college and university, then it would be devastating financially for these businesses if women stopped attending. If these colleges and universities (businesses) lost money and students at the same alarming rate as sexual crimes are said to occur, then perhaps they would implement changes to staff and practices to stop this type of behavior in the first place. So, in your opinion only boys and men commit these atrocities? Thats the problem, instead of addressing it with the guilty party, you would rather just blame all men and boys? That doesn’t sound very helpful or even appropriate.

          Have you ever been to an “All Male Review” a strip club where men are stripping and women are in the audience? If you had you would know that in these places the women who attend the show are the ones touching and grabbing, flashing and acting incredibly inappropriate.

          Have you ever been to a strip club, where the female performs and men are in the audience? In these establishments, the men in the audience often sit in silence, by themselves and rarely break the rules.

          What about the gays and their predatory behavior? Lesbians don’t attack women and girls? Do gays not attack other men and boys? What about what happened to Terry Crews? What about that movie last year “Say My Name” a movie financed by Hollywood about an adult man seducing and statutory raping a boy, they called it. love story?

          Why do you want to blame half the population for the actions that they didn’t commit?

          Q. One thing the 50s got 100% right was the societal sense on community. One bad egg in the community was ostracized and WELL KNOWN to it. Unfortunately, we’re a transient and mobile society now. We live in a vague structure of community, but few of us are CONNECTED. We’re all out for ourselves or our own nuclear family and not looking out for our neighbors near or far.

          A. People are ostracized everyday especially today. What do you do if you think one of your own family members is racist or a homophobe? Thats all everyone wants to do anymore is ostracize, whether it’s over Trump or Kavanaugh or Clinton or anything else.

          Q. As far as nonreporting, until you’ve been a victimized woman, you can’t understand the shame and, sometimes, pure terror that would accompany making a formal report. Unless the assault is obviously violent which resulted in visible injuries, male cops tend to discount the victim’s testimony. It takes A TON of courage to report a sexual assault, especially in today’s overly sensitive political environment. Many victims don’t have the fortitude to withstand being revictimized by reporting, so they try to forget it ever happened. Few succeed with that plan, though.

          A. So, only a victimized WOMAN can understand? Where do you come up with these standards? Do you regularly stereotype men and boys? If anyone doesn’t wish to report a crime for any matter then they make that choice and like all choices they all have consequences. Being scared is no reason, it is an excuse. If being scared was a legitimate reason, then why do anything that is scary or uncomfortable? If someone doesn’t report, then they are responsible for their own decision. It is unfair and it is not right to blame others for a failure to report.

          1. Bill Cosby has/had money and influence and was prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Weinstein was indicted on several counts of sexual assault and his cases are STILL pending. Again, money and influence at play yet his prosecution is still pending.

            Did you say male patrons at strip clubs are usually well-behaved? Where are these strip clubs? Would love to witness these well-behaved patrons as female strippers shake their derrieres and ample bossoms in their faces.

            Further, to use the strip club environment to compound your “wrongful accusation rape allegations” is wholly unfair and downright silly. Seriously, a Strip Club vs. College, really 007?! C’mon!

            “Gays and their predatory behavior”…That’s a hell of a generalization. Are you implying that gays are usually predatory?

            What about what happened to Terry Crews? It was wrong! Inexcusable and extremely wrong. No one is excusing this behavior because it was a male that copped a feel on Crews. It was abhorrent behavior and downright despicable, like any other sexual assault.

            Also, if you’re going to use the movie as an example to support your arguments at least get the name right. The title of the movie is “Call Me By Your Name”. Did you even watch the movie because you’re getting the plot inaccurate? Armie Hammer’s character, Oliver, the adult male in the movie, was, in fact, seduced by, Elio, the seventeen-year-old played by Timothee Chalamet. Not the other way around as you stated. I saw the movie twice and I read the book.

            I think your entire piece is written in an insolent manner to provoke discourse and that is all well and good but I find it difficult to believe that a man of your intellect does not know that there is, in fact, a standard that has to be met in each and every state for a rape (or any other sexual charge) to even be indicted.

            1. bottomlesscoffee007

              If Im not mistaken, Weinstein is still pending charges. So who really knows what happened, If I remember correctly, a charge or two has already been dropped. Because Weinstein has money and had influence, he was able to dally with this type of lifestyle. I thought that his contract for the Weinstein company allowed him so many sexual “liberties” every year. Is this not accurate?

              Practically every strip club I’ve ever been to Rakkelle, the guys are the well behaved ones. Strip clubs are not as they are portrayed in music videos. The patrons know that it doesn’t take much to get the bouncers to kick them out or even have the police called on them.

              Who is using strip clubs to compound anything? I was just pointing out the obvious differences and who is allowed to get away with what. I wrote about this behavior in the past, here is the post if you need to refresh your memory https://bottomlesscoffee007.com/2018/11/14/women-commit-sexual-harassment-and-sexual-assault-far-more-than-men-in-the-u-s/
              You even commented as to the double standard.

              Gays and their predatory behavior, is it not true? Look at the church, look at Hollywood. How is it fair to penalize all men and boys, yet to suggest gays and women participate as well is somewhat outlandish? Now it just seems as though it is portrayed as unfair to simply be honest about this.

              So, the movies like “Lolita” and “Call Me By Your Name”, Ive seen neither. The premise alone disgusts me. Ok, so I got the plot backwards. Does the adult still have sexual relations with the child? How does that play out in the movie? Is it described as a torrid love affair or is the adult prosecuted for rape or pedophilia? Does it make it right that the adult follows through with the seduction regardless of who initiated it? So, kids and adults having sex is now kosher since it is done “artfully”? Please explain this phenomenon to me. Where is the movie or the book depicting a sexual relationship between a male teacher and his female high school student? Why are homosexual, sexual relationships between an adult and a child who has not reached the age of consent yet given a pass or an adult woman and a minor male?

              That what I was asking in my post Rakkelle. Are there actual definitive standards or are the standards malleable? Are the standards the same between men and women? Its a simple question that seems to cause quite a stir which seems odd.

              Here is what inspired this post. Maybe this will provide insight into my question. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6535797/Female-teacher-39-gets-six-months-jail-classroom-sex-two-17-year-old-male-students.html

              It seems that the majority of female authority figures who engage in sexual relationships with males who are minors at the time face a fraction of the scrutiny and punishment that their male counterparts do.

              When it comes to gays, look no further than the church and Hollywood, both are wrought with pedophilia yet hardly a peep nor criminal charges actually being filed or followed through with.

              So, I asked a simple question: What are the definitive standards or what is the minimum established criteria that must be met? Since from where I am looking it seems that in this day and age, men and boys are still prosecuted with more prejudice and vitriol than women and gays are.

              When equality is such a buzzword, everyone seems content to allow this obvious slanted justice model to continue on.

              I appreciate the questions and critical method in which you engaged with me. I think these conversations although touchy and controversial are important and hopefully never cease. We need to continue to ask questions and question what is being decided and question what is happening.

              I look forward to your response.

              1. “It seems that the majority of female authority figures who engage in sexual relationships with males who are minors at the time face a fraction of the scrutiny and punishment that their male counterparts do.”

                I think that a lot if this comes down to the mentality if the victim. Quite often female perps aren’t punished as seriously as male perps because: (a) the victims never felt like a “victim” and, at least in some circumstances, encouraged or wanted the crime to occur therefore never reported it as a crime and, usually, were discovered/reported by an outsider; and, (b) that imbalance in power I discussed in a previous comment.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  Exactly, how manly is it to admit that you were taken advantage of? It’s like getting punched, it hurts like an S.O.B., but you put on a tough face and try to laugh it off.

                  When you get home, your pissed and you feel the shame and pain.

          2. Money and influence don’t dictate anything, least of all who will be prosecuted. PEOPLE decide what they will or won’t stand for as well as whether or not they can be swayed by money and influence to not prosecute – and people are flawed.

            By and large, sexual crimes are perpetrated by males. That’s a statistical fact. You claimed (at least to a degree) that it’s a lack of knowledge that’s causing males to commit sexual crimes. You also suggested women should boycott colleges and universities – I’m clearly missing how they can both boycott AND attend at the same time. Exactly which “changes to staff and practices” could be implemented in colleges and universities to stop sexual crimes from occurring?

            I have attended both male and female strip clubs and seen abhorrent behavior at both, though the strippers (both male & female) that I’ve personally known have told me it’s completely expected and, quite often, welcomed due to likely receiving bigger tips as a “reward”.

            You’re a dude, so you’ll never understand what it’s like to be a female victimized by a male – there is (and probably always will be) an imbalance in power between males and females, not the least of which is physical strength (the usual obvious one) and violent tendencies/rage (another common one). How many stories have you heard about victimized men reporting the sexual crime committed against them, then later winding up dead as a result? In an ideal world, no crime would go unreported but, last I checked, the world isn’t ideal. It’s a hell of a lot easier for you, as a man, to pass judgment on faceless victims and blame them for the broken system but even if every single crime was reported, it wouldn’t magically fix what’s broken.

            1. bottomlesscoffee007

              Ok, let’s bring this back on track. This is some seriously great conversation and discussion.

              Can you please tell me what minimum criteria must be met to be found guilty of sexual harassment? If that can be established and standardized then maybe we can get somewhere. What threshold must any perpetrator cross to be found guilty of committing sexual harassment?

              Are more men guilty of sex crimes or are charges filed against more men than women? The majority of times whenever police are called to a domestic violence or disturbance, the man will be cuffed and either arrested on the spot or told he is not allowed to come back. Women know the power they posses and they wield it whenever it suits them.

              Men do commit sex crimes, so do women. But women are far likelier to be let off or given incredibly light sentences when compared to men.

              Rape kits have been notoriously dismissed and rarely used. At the same time, there are plenty of men in prison today that were imprisoned with fraudulent evidence.

              Women are killed, yet men are killed as well by women. Look at the Bobbits and the cult like following that Lorena has garnered. If Bobbit was truly guilty, then why has he never been prosecuted?

              Money and influence does dictate what kind of legal representation can be hired. Money and influence do grant those with it that much more latitude when it comes to anything, especially criminal behavior. To say that money and influence are of zero concern is asinine.

              Why would you put yourself in danger, just to hope that one day in the future everything will pay off? How are these colleges and universities still so dangerous with a ratio that favors women over men when it comes to a student body? There are more women in college and university today than men. That is a fact.

              I’ll never understand what it means to be victimized? I’ll never experience intimidation? Plenty of women intimidate men and plenty of men intimidate men. I don’t understand how you can make such a sweeping argument when you’ve never “walked a mile in my shoes”.

              You’re right, the majority of men won’t report, they instead commit suicide. Or they seek revenge and then end up in prison. The legal system is not set up to protect men, it is designed and carried out to protect women.

              How am I passing judgement by simply asking questions? Are questions not allowed in your mind? Are questions not to be tolerated by your standards?

              1. According to the EEOC:

                “It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

                Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
                Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.

                Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

                The harasser can be the victim’s supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.”

                Source: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  Thank you Heather for the link and the accurate description.

                  So, is it up to the harassed to decide what is and what is not harassment?

                  This is a loose standard at best, that some use to their advantage and actually use it for intimidation, knowing that men are afraid of this mere accusation. Since it could lead to their dismissal or worse.

                  I acknowledge that harassment takes place and is wrong. Yet there are times where harassment doesn’t actually occur, yet charges are still filed and lives are destroyed.

                  1. “So, is it up to the harassed to decide what is and what is not harassment?”

                    Yes and no. Some folks have a higher tolerance for harassment at its lower levels and just shrug it off. Others are much more sensitive to any step over “the line”.

                    Example: At one of my former jobs, I worked in the office which had a warehouse and manufacturing plant attached to it. The entire operation had 4 female employees (all in the office) and about 25 male employees (about 4 in the office and the remainder in the warehouse/manufacturing plant). I was the youngest employee at 26 years old and my job required me to interact with the warehouse and manufacturing staff quite a bit. Generally, not a problem at all. I grew up a tomboy and can handle male teasing – even in a group. And I was teased a lot. Many inappropriate comments that were sexual in nature, even some “accidental” gropes/bumps/brushing againsts that I verbally called them out on, but mentally shrugged off. One morning I arrived extremely early and was in the office alone, but had to clock in – in the warehouse. Only one of the manufacturing line workers was in. He’d always been guilty of the behavior outlined above, but I never felt in danger. While I was clocking in, he started making sexually inappropriate comments. I started to shoot off some snarky comment at him when he came up behind me, wrapped his arms round my arms (so they were locked at my sides) and picked me up a couple of feet off of the ground. He started saying filthier things and also trying to kiss/suck/bite my neck while I flailed about screaming obscenities and overall panicking that I was about to be raped. I got lucky – another worker arrived in the warehouse and the guy loosened his grip on me enough to get away. I went back into the office, locked the door and immediately detailed what had occurred in an email to my boss (a male). My boss (a seriously awesome dude), brought in attorneys that same morning who interviewed me and urged me to file criminal charges against the other employee (I refused). The other employee (shockingly) admitted to what he’d done and was immediately terminated. My boss put additional safety measures in place so that no other female employee would be in that same position. in my opinion, that’s how it ought to have been dealt with.

                    I do recognize there are lots of other people out there who would have complained to the boss upon hearing the very first sexually inappropriate comment. I also understand that, in many cases, their past experiences have caused them to have a heightened sensitivity to that sort of thing. I also know there are people out there who are looking to twist anything they can to get whatever they can whenever they can from the system.

                    1. bottomlesscoffee007

                      That is horrible that you had to experience that. My heart goes out to you. So, where does that leave us?

                      If it is up to an accuser that reports everything, even when the person saying something was taken completely out of context, that just simply gums up the works, when they could be investigating actual crimes.

                    2. “That is horrible that you had to experience that. My heart goes out to you. So, where does that leave us?”

                      Oh, I was over it that day considering how it was dealt with in such a swift and just manner- I just cited it as an example. I’m not broken from that experience. 🙂

                      That leaves us where we are. With a clunky and imperfect system. I don’t imagine we’ll ever attain perfection, no matter how hard we try.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  Damn, this is awesome. Heather, you’re one hell of a woman. You bring an element to this conversation that I cannot.

                  I thoroughly enjoy your insight and constant pushback.

                  I think if more had your tenacity to talk the hard talk. Perhaps, we would understand each other much clearer.

              2. “If Bobbit was truly guilty, then why has he never been prosecuted?”

                I don’t know the real answer to this one, though there were rumors going around that the authorities felt like he’d gotten punishment enough by Lorena. Again, that’s just rumor, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if prosecutors really considered that a good reason not to charge him. There’s a lot that goes into getting a guilty verdict and they very well may have thought that the jury woukd think that and not found him guilty as a result, wasting the public’s time and money.

              3. “Why would you put yourself in danger, just to hope that one day in the future everything will pay off?”

                Hmm…isn’t that exactly what’s happened historically to effect major change?

              4. “How are these colleges and universities still so dangerous with a ratio that favors women over men when it comes to a student body? ”

                I don’t think you’re looking at it the right way – it’s not just ratios, it’s also easy pickins for the perps. Even back in the days of all girl schools and all guy schools, sex crimes were still a problem. That’s because the problem stems elsewhere.

                (Unrelated side note: Sorry about the choppy way I’m responding – I keep getting called away from the keyboard.)

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  So, then we agree that the perpetrators are not just men and boys.

                  No worries Heather, handle your business. I was absent all night.

                    1. bottomlesscoffee007

                      So, does that mean that men and boys are the majority of the perps or does that mean that men and boys are simply reported at higher rates of that men and boys are found guilty at higher rates?

              5. “I’ll never understand what it means to be victimized? I’ll never experience intimidation? ”

                Have you been victimized and/or intimidated sexually? To clarify: in a negative fashion, not because you’re into that particular kink.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  Yes, I have. I’ve experienced men and women grabbing my dick through my pants. I’ve had women run their asses on my crotch when I was trying to get away.

                  My ass has been grabbed and my shoulders and arms have been stroked, when I did not ask for it and when I was bluntly opposed.

                  Women will tell me to this day, that “I smell good”. How weird is that, that the girl from the drive through all the way up to the woman in corporate would just say “you smell very nice”? I know none of these women, yet they feel that they are able to say these things.

                  What am I gonna do, report everything? How can I live my life if I’m always trying to right all of the wrongs done to me. I either do something about it, or I just continue to move forward and keep on doing me and for my family.

                  I am more afraid of reporting a woman, simply because of my stature, I know that I would not be believed and it is easy for a woman to simply turn the tables and accuse me once she found out that I accused her.

                  It’s a mess that I don’t want to get involved in. I have better things to do.

                  I’ve had women use their boyfriends or husbands to attack me, when I did absolutely nothing, except for turning down their advances. A woman who is turned down sometimes will lie to others, just to see you in pain.

                  1. “Women will tell me to this day, that “I smell good”. How weird is that, that the girl from the drive through all the way up to the woman in corporate would just say “you smell very nice”? I know none of these women, yet they feel that they are able to say these things.”

                    Okay, that made me laugh out loud. In my world, we call that a compliment. And it’s usually a nice thing when someone compliments you – even more so if it’s a stranger.

                    1. bottomlesscoffee007

                      Sure, how would you respond to a strange man just approached you to tell you that you smell nice? Would you say thank you and just continue on. I guess it depends on the person, then again, some would call that guy a creep.

                    2. Fair question, I guess, bur I’m an Avon lady and TRY to smell nice. I’ve been complimented many times by strangers (yes, men are among them) and I’ve always simply taken it as a compliment. I’m sure others may call that creepy behavior, but I don’t. Tone of voice also helps determine whether a compliment is simply a compliment or something sleezier.

                    3. bottomlesscoffee007

                      I can understand that then, from your point of view anyway. You’re selling the product by demonstrating it.

                    4. I also tend to notice scents on others and will compliment them when I like it, but it is always purely meant as a straightforward compliment.

                2. bottomlesscoffee007

                  So, I just keep my cool, smile and get out as calmly as possible. Not to raise suspicion. I’m a tall and broad man. I know how it will look if I report it.

                  Whenever there is a fight between a smaller kid and a bigger kid. The bigger kid is always assumed to be the bully. The bigger kid is also always expected to be the “bigger/more mature” person.

              6. “How am I passing judgement by simply asking questions? Are questions not allowed in your mind? Are questions not to be tolerated by your standards?”

                It’s my opinion that you’re passing judgment based on the way you’ve worded your statements.. Questions are absolutely allowed and I am tolerating them – I think. Mostly, anyway.

                1. bottomlesscoffee007

                  That’s the problem with text. It can sometimes be incredibly hard to convey intent. So, assumptions are made on both sides.

    2. bottomlesscoffee007

      What are the efforts to stop sexual abuse from happening in prisons and other institutions of punishment? Do those numbers not count? Do those victims not count?

  8. There is a lot of information out there on the topic, I recently watched a video about “rape culture” at colleges and that has no bearing on my point, I just want people to know I watch videos. I will say this, beyond he said she said, he said he said, burden of proof etc. colleges will pressure victims to either report to their local “police” or pressure victims to second guess themselves or to let the internal police report it. They not only do this with sex crimes but with MOST crimes, this is because when a parent googles crime in XXXXXXX university, the whole campus isn’t one giant red dot that denotes its rape central U.S. they keep officially reported and adjudicated crimes down to make the university appear safer. This doesn’t exactly go with the theme of this blog but it is a fact and it detracts from the seriousness of sexual crimes that do occur.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      Intersting point. I have heard of crime statistics being “massaged” to make an area appear safer than it really is to encourage more people to go there. When it comes to data, I wonder what the real numbers are and how they arrived at those conclusions. Unfortunately we will never know.

      If we cannot speak truthfully and candidly about this, how can we ever expect to understand what is really happening and arrive at solutions to curb or eliminate this behavior?

      Thanks for the interesting insight.

  9. Anonymous

    I think the point you are trying to make coffee, is that every group of people exhibits predatory behaviors, which is true. Certain groups seem to get let off a lot easier than others, which may seem true, but requires a lot more investigations than anecdotal stories about strip clubs. (BTW, when did you start going to all male reviews? I’m pretty bummed you didn’t invite me.) I think where the issue lies is how we view the victims of sexual assault. Why do we as a culture shame victims? Why does a woman who accuses a powerful man of a sex crime get brushed off as a gold digging oppurtunist? I think we need to look at how we view sex and sexuality as a whole, not as something that only gets talked about once in health class, and that kids learn about from internet porn. When I was growing u p, I was told to be a gentleman by my family. But the bulk of comedy i watched (Zapped, Revenge of the Nerds, Porkys etc.) Seemed to be about losers becoming winners by coercing beautiful women into sex. This is mixed messaging at best, and this is the type of change that needs to occur, IMHO, before we can get away from this. Bottom line is, there is data on this, but it is uncomfortable to hear. That is why it is ignored Or questioned into irrelevance.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      Whoever you are, I couldn’t agree more. I’m just trying find out what is truly out there.

      I agree, if we expect to fully get this out, then we must look at everything!

      As far as the all male reviews, I plead the 5th!!!

  10. Anonymous

    Also, homosexuals did nothing within the Catholic church. I think the group who you are referring to is pedophiles. Pedophiles are predatory by nature where as homosexuals are not predatory by nature. Conflating the two is ignorant at best, and bigoted and mean spirited at worst. Homosexuals and lesbians who prey on children are pedophiles and pedophiles are inherently sexual predators because they seek out sexual relationships with individuals who cannot give consent. a mentally healthy adult regardless of their sexual orientation would not seek out a sexual relationship with a child.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      That is a solid counter. What about rape in prisons then? I’m not trying to blanket every gay and lesbian, but it would be ignorant to think that no gays or lesbians ever engaged in sexual predation.

    2. bottomlesscoffee007

      As far as the labels go whether bigot or mean spirited, they have no bearing on whether or not to discuss this or anything for that matter.

    1. bottomlesscoffee007

      That’s what I have been told as well. In some cases, possibly, man on man or woman on woman is not considered gay by the perpetrator, since like you said. It’s about power and not sex.

      Thanks Steve.

  11. Pingback: Bottomless Coffee 007Conversation Shaken, Not Stirred, A Place to Speak FreelySteve and I Talk “The Wall”, Statistics, Numbers, Ideas and We Dabble in Climate Change; I Give My Thoughts on Some Newly Female Elected Representatives: TidePodcast

Leave a Reply to bottomlesscoffee007 Cancel reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.